General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am beginning to believe that Epstein was murdered...
He knew too much.
The note that was mailed to Larry Nasser after his death seems very fishy to me. It was mailed and returned after his death. In it, he says he is taking the short road home. Nasser was the former Olympics coach that had been convicted of sex crimes against the Olympic girl athletes.
Also, we learn today that there were 10 others that were indicted and named in the documents released today. But, all that evidence was buried during the last months of Trump's first Administration. His Justice Department took care of business for him. We knew nothing about this part of the Epstein case?
Also, there have been several reports that the photos of Epstein's suicide were faked. I never thought much about that until now. Maybe they were "faked"?
And the note may have been written by "someone" else to make it appear that he had committed suicide, when in fact, he was murdered.
There is so much information that has come out today, we should be very wary about all of it.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)Trump had motive and opportunity.
And would think nothing of killing a friend and business partner to save himsel.
kentuck
(115,047 posts)Epstein must have felt that he could always pull the strings and get out of prison? He had always done it before. But, he was sent to prison during Trump's presidency. With the documents made public today, it looks much more likely that he was murdered.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)travelingthrulife
(4,322 posts)Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)Bill Barr's father was the headmaster at an exclusive school in NYC and
he hired Epstein to be a teacher there despite having no degree in anything.
Their relationship has always been suspect.
So Barr had personal and professional motives.
He is one of the people who probably know what happened in that jail cell.
buzzycrumbhunger
(1,607 posts)and whod be most likely to be desperate enough to shut him up that way? The cohort whos avoided that so far.
yellow dahlia
(4,302 posts)It doesn't fit his personality profile.
And plus - who did it benefit?
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)It is had been rumored she was involved in the pedo ring, she and Ghislaine Maxwell
interviewed girls. It was said Ivanna was going to be questioned by the police.
yellow dahlia
(4,302 posts)until recently. On DU of course.
It never stops.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)Especially when Trump dumped her in a grave on one of his golf courses.
But yes, more info is coming out about her role in the pedo ring.
The autopsy said blunt force trauma to her torso was cause of death.
How hard do you have to fall to cause that kind of damage and death?
Maybe it is all legit, but we at least have to ask the question especially in
light of some of the recent reports.
Yes YD it never stops.
The depravity has no bottom.
MustLoveBeagles
(14,552 posts)If true she's just as evil as her ex.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)It must be true.
But seriously. I think this is new information just coming out.
Wouldn't surprise me in the least.
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(2,901 posts)Especially after finding out that both guards tasked to watch him fell asleep and a portion of the prison video of his cell is missing.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)No formal investigation was done.
I am not sure if any evidence was bagged or not.
CarolinaNC
(139 posts)FadedMullet
(644 posts)........about Trump, Mar-a-Largo, the files, other participants (both victims and old man pedophiles) and hush money, the suspicions will solidify into hard facts and headlines.
RockRaven
(18,628 posts)that was not on his official published schedule? Might be relevant given that Barr was ultimately responsible, as AG and head of the DOJ, both for Epstein's presence in that jail and for the jail itself.
And notice that Barr and Epstein had a connection independent of The Dotard. Barr's father was headmaster of an exclusive/expensive NYC private school that hired Epstein -- who had no college degree and no teaching experience -- to teach math to teens. Epstein then gained a reputation for inappropriately socializing with his teen students, quelle surprise. Also around the time of the hire, Barr's father published a horny/pervy sci-fi novel whose plot involved child sex slavery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Relations
What strange coincidences...
kentuck
(115,047 posts)Seems I read that somewhere?
AZJonnie
(2,712 posts)Closer to an urban myth as of now.
2naSalit
(99,713 posts)Take a lot of planning, according to Malcolm Nance.
Joinfortmill
(19,912 posts)still-prayin4rain
(522 posts)Pachamama
(17,540 posts)They needed to be kept quiet
AZJonnie
(2,712 posts)She was by far and away the most outspoken and threatening victim out there, and she sued people and testified and gave interviews over like 15 years. Seems doubtful she was suddenly a big concern in 2025. If she was going to be whacked, it logically would've occurred long before that
Also, her SIL has said her suicide tracks with her circumstances:
I would also add, based on the memoir she endured significant guilt over her own role in the recruitment of underage girls for JE/GM to prey upon. Combined with all the above her sister mentioned, and knowing the sexual abuse started when she was 12 (way before Epstein)? I have to say I'm quite unsure *I* could endure all that.
Brunel and Epstein, who knows for sure. But their lives were basically over, they were toast. And Brunel was in the clink awaiting trial for 14 months, during which time there were "several" previous suicide attempts. One could imagine depression setting in pretty badly over 14 months (not that I feel sorry for that asshole!).
Epstein died within 24 hours of the release of the files from the 2015 Maxwell defamation case, where Guiffre's testimony nailed his ass to the cross. That timing certainly makes sense for someone offing themselves. That said, I'd be unsurprised if he wasn't "allowed to" and given the tools/means. Perhaps by order of Trump. Perhaps that's one of the things he's terrified might come out?
yellow dahlia
(4,302 posts)Sort of like the mysterious falling off of a balcony in Russia.
Bohunk68
(1,425 posts)flvegan
(65,684 posts)He had mountains of "get out of jail free" cards and I believe his appeal to get out on bail was still pending.
I'd sooner believe he was still alive and in hiding/exile somewhere before I believed he killed himself. I'd sooner believe he was in witness protection before I believed he killed himself.
catchnrelease
(2,128 posts)I think it was on Bluesky but not sure now. It was saying 'Epstein Island sold to Mid East businessman' named Haadid Nahikil Muhssef. (I confess it took me a minute to catch that joke) and a photo of a man with a turban(?) and long white beard. But the face was very clearly Jeffrey Epstein under the 'disguise'. Alluding to just what you said--he's in witness protection somewhere, not dead.
I found a link---
[link:https://genesiustimes.com/epstein-island-sold-to-wealthy-middle-eastern-businessman-haadid-nahkil-muhssef/
flvegan
(65,684 posts)MorbidButterflyTat
(4,104 posts)His "clients" are super wealthy and wouldn't want to give up what Epstein supplied.
His supposedly dead body lying on a gurney for the cameras, just happened to conveniently reveal his face. If dead, the sheet would be over his face.
Wealthy pedophiles have no reason to kill themselves. He could be on any number of yachts in any sea currently indulging in his favorite pastimes. Girls and women are trafficked every day.
Scrivener7
(58,153 posts)Nigrum Cattus
(1,201 posts)both guards just so happen to have fallen asleep
during that short period of time ?
fujiyamasan
(1,128 posts)Sounds like the plot hole out of a really dumb movie. No one would buy it.
Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)Amazing set of coincidences.
Dave Bowman
(6,540 posts)Irish_Dem
(79,410 posts)My favorite Malcolm Nance quote.
Raine
(31,078 posts)Joinfortmill
(19,912 posts)Skittles
(169,255 posts)I have always assumed that was a GIVEN
ashredux
(2,847 posts)And what a coincidence, that the video had a little bit of glitch and didnt show the fact that someone came in and hang the mother fucker it did not take Colombo to figure this one out
Trueblue Texan
(4,162 posts)Further if he hung himself with a sheet, it wouldnt make a thin mark on his neck, like a wire would, which is the mark he had on his lower neck. No way he killed himself.
OAITW r.2.0
(31,341 posts)Epstein died while Trump was President and Barr ran the DOJ. The stuff we are learning about Trump's connection to Epstein now, the more I think that Trump needed him gone.
tavernier
(14,218 posts)He had so much compiled against every person who was involved for or against him. I still think that there are more copies than what they know of, and which they redact religiously.
paleotn
(21,415 posts)she's got a "dead woman" switch. They touch her and everyone blows up.
EdmondDantes_
(1,311 posts)Maybe before making up our minds we should see if the letter is true, if it's not who faked it, why it was in the files, etc.
mwooldri
(10,783 posts)Just asking....
GoCubsGo
(34,637 posts)Like planting a fake letter, that will muddy up things, in hopes that people will start losing trust, and start believing the whole "hoax" thing. At the very least, this is a distraction.
fujiyamasan
(1,128 posts)The agency is compromised.
wolfie001
(6,963 posts)Coincidence? Rumor has it that a couple of russkis witnessed the whole incident.
BWdem4life
(2,924 posts)Emile
(40,322 posts)Picaro
(2,323 posts)Simple details made suicide impossible for me to believe. First he was as much a narcissist as Trump. Narcissists rarely kill themselves.
Second, he knew too much about Trump while he had all the resources available to the President of the United States. Think through that for just a moment.
Then the strange issues with the guards who were not there and the cameras that were expertly disabled for just the right time period.
Then the motive. Epstein had the goods on Trump and probably telegraphed that to him.
The autopsy revealed things that wouldnt have been there in a simple jailhouse self hanging.
It goes on and on.
This is a demonstration of Occams Razor. When everything is brushed away and only one thing remains then that must be the truth.
This is a very Sherlockian story.
When I saw that Epstein had said in an email that Trump was the dog who didnt bark I almost spit my coffee across the room. How unintentionally apropos.
But how normal that this instinctively Machiavellian man Epstein would see what Trumps moves would be and that he was a walking dead man.
yellow dahlia
(4,302 posts)Personality profile +
all the other coincidences +
who did it benefit?
evolves
(5,726 posts)He DID know too much and was probably prepared to spill it.
Not only is donnie a rapist and a pedophile, hes likely also a murderer.
relayerbob
(7,353 posts)usonian
(23,311 posts)When in a liquid state, of course.
Bev54
(13,155 posts)stopdiggin
(14,921 posts)indicate/refer to a 'return' date.
(In any event - such an obvious and incredible 'hack job' - that it never warranted any consideration in the first place. I would be embarrassed pointing to this as evidence or 'indicating' anything at all.)
TBF
(35,458 posts)and I don't think Ivana's "fall" was "accidental" either.
Iggo
(49,587 posts)pacalo
(24,844 posts)Disgusting, isn't he.
Luciferous
(6,542 posts)knew too much about some very powerful people.
GoodRaisin
(10,699 posts)Never have believed that. Much more likely to be murder, with Krasnov having the most to gain by Epstein being dead.
spanone
(140,918 posts)Mike Nelson
(10,894 posts)... the "letter" is fake, they said. First of all, the postmark is, what did they say, three days after his death? Means nothing, to me... are there post offices in prisons, to officially postmark letters? I had no idea! Why do prisoners get their mail postmarked so quickly and efficiently? AND, okay... their "handwriting experts" say it wasn't Epstein's writing. THEN, considering how the letter reads - the subject and details - they should know who the "forger" is, by now. I would have ordered DNA testing IMMEDIATELY. Letters are like crime scenes... licking the stamp, the flap, and whatever is inside!
Scrivener7
(58,153 posts)took him down, and to do that she studied him for years.
I tend to accept her opinion. YMMV.
Mike Nelson
(10,894 posts)... still, I think it's worth investigating who sent the letter.
Scrivener7
(58,153 posts)Orrex
(66,600 posts)Generally when someone dares to question Trump's official story re: Epstein's "suicide," a throng of finger-waggers appears to scold, belittle, and humiliate.
Prairie Gates
(7,131 posts)JohnnyRingo
(20,423 posts)I believe such a plot would involve coconspirators at many levels, right down to other prisoners and individual guards on duty that night.
I also believe there's more to this story than what we know so far.
A secret is only good until two people know it and it's just a matter of time before someone comes forward
LetMyPeopleVote
(174,354 posts)Crunchy Frog
(28,211 posts)Buckeyeblue
(6,168 posts)Spending the remainder of his life in prison as a sex offender is a big reason. Why would anyone want to continue living under such circumstances?
But I'm continually amazed at the people facing life in prison or even the death penalty who turn themselves in or allow themselves to be taken into custody without a fight.
I guess I'm just amazed at the people who are obedient and freely comply when their lives are effectively over.
TommieMommy
(2,631 posts)Linda ladeewolf
(1,090 posts)Also feel pretty sure that the DOJ is hiding billionaires in the Epstein files, since those are the only people that matter to them. I also think some of the republicans are learning they will never be free if they dont bring this stuff to light. Im hoping for a bale of straw for Christmas, not coal.
Scalded Nun
(1,591 posts)The jail cell just did not have a balcony to fall from.
Dave Bowman
(6,540 posts)CarolinaNC
(139 posts)CarolinaNC
(139 posts)ProudMNDemocrat
(20,561 posts)Which made sense. Someone or someones wanted him GONE permanently!
Akakoji
(471 posts)That's the entire point of the pogrom. You either fly out of the window, or off yourself in jail because suddenly you feel remorse. What, you don't believe that?
Aussie105
(7,543 posts)Someone a long time ago remarked Trump was a boil on the bum of American society.
Turns out there are a lot of boils on a lot of bums.
It's a boys' club, above and beyond the moral code and laws of normal men, making up their own rules.
Who and how many in that club, is still to be discovered - if ever.
This is the Watergate cover-up on steroids.
B.See
(7,638 posts)OLDMDDEM
(3,015 posts)Trueblue Texan
(4,162 posts)Just google it,
