Sometimes a cult collapses under its own weight.

[milestogo]

From the outside it seems impregnable. United in craziness. But on the inside there are the same conflicts and divisions that exist in any organization. There is infighting. There is sabotage. There is gossip. There is back-stabbing.

We're starting to see problems emerge. Bondi and Noem are under fire. Hegseth has made some major mistakes. Once things start to unravel, the whole crazy thing might collapse.

I hope so.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Bit by bit and then ... suddenly. The "tipping point" has not been reached yet. . . . . nt

[Joinfortmill]

34. This Epstein thing may have legs. These two creeps were besties for a decade.

[The Blue Flower]

2. There's no honor among thieves

They'll turn on and lie to each other to save their own necks. The structure can't last.

[milestogo]

3. Elon will tell Trump's secrets

Bongino will write a tell all

It won't be pretty

[kacekwl]

7. Yea, 5 years from now.

Jake Tapper will be all over it.

[ZDU]

9. lmfao

[ms liberty]

10. This right here

[The Madcap]

4. And when he finally b passes away

His cultists will all deny their involvement.

[AverageOldGuy]

8. I hope it's soon

You see, I'm 80 and I want to live long enough to piss on his grave. Problem is, I really don't like standing in line.

My daughter lives on Capitol Hill in DC. If Trump is lying in state in the Capitol Rotunda, I could go by and piss on his casket . . . but there's likely to be a line of people waiting to do the same thing, damn certain there will not be a line of mourners.

[tavernier]

12. My friend is worried that if he dies, he will become a martyr.

I told her that most of the crying and sobbing will be drowned out from the pop of champagne corks, and REAL parades and fireworks

[milestogo]

13. Most of the country will be singing...

[mdbl]

19. In the GOP, there are a hundred wicked witches waiting to take his place

each one worse than the first.

[ninjanurse]

25. Will the cult follow President Vance?

Racism is the magic power and he knows how to use it.

[milestogo]

28. I don't think he has the same "charm" as TSF.

[NH Ethylene]

48. I agree. I've thought that all along.

Donald Trump has been able to do and say anything at all and it just slides off of him. Sickening though it sounds, he has enchanted certain swaths of people in a way we've never seen before in American politics.

I don't see anybody taking his place just by saying the 'right' things.

[milestogo]

50. J.D. Vance is effortlessly abrasive.

Its a wonder he and TSF get along.

[mdbl]

54. but the cult likes that.

That's why he emulates the orange buffoon so well.

[HeartsCanHope]

58. I personally don't think so.

Vance has zero charisma and is treated with contempt by most of his colleagues.

[The Madcap]

63. I doubt it.

Very seldom is the "follow-on" to a cult leader successful in their own right. They always seem to have to look back to the previous leader and can't go their own way. The only possible exception I can think of is Stalin, but in his case, he did it by force and under the shadow of WW2 when the very existence of the USSR was under threat. And Lenin was not quite a cult leader in the traditional sense, at least not in the crazy way we think of cult leaders today.

I just don't think Vance has the charisma or backing to pull it off.

[AllaN01Bear]

20. i will be singing the ding dong song myself if he croaks in office .

[IbogaProject]

15. That party will dwarf the 2020 election celebration

Those were big outdoor fests in NYC due to very nice weather.

[Iggo]

42. Interesting theory.

Can’t wait ‘til it’s tested.

[ProfessorGAC]

52. What Does That Mean Though?

The cult is based on HIM. Not some grand vision of the future.
He wants everything now; so do his followers.
I've the same thing as your friend said, but not getting how that is worse than him living.

[ChazInAz]

81. Not "on his casket"!

ln his casket.
The Imperial Roman's, for a short time, had a funeral custom of leaving food offerings and libations at ancestral tombs. To facilitate the pouring of wine, a bit of plumbing was installed from outside the tomb to the interior. This was discontinued when passers by employed it for an unintended purpose.

[Joinfortmill]

35. All the 'good Americans'

[HeartsCanHope]

57. Hopefully we'll all still be here to counter their lies!

[PatSeg]

5. Yes, we can hope

There is no real honor or loyalty among these miscreants.

[Martin68]

6. I agree. Incompetence inevitably leads to disaster.

[ZDU]

11. Remove Joan, Insert Donnie...

"You should never say bad things about the dead, you should only say good . . . Joan Crawford is dead. Good."

Bette Davis

[Joinfortmill]

36. This is priceless!

[ZDU]

46. Yes, yes indeed!

[kimbutgar]

14. I'm feeling like the outrage of what the orange Hitler is doing is going to come to a head and people

Will start being affected by this dictatorship regime. Even MAGAs will be affected and the Christian right when they stop getting as much money on Sunday because people will be suffering from paying more due to tariffs, paying more for medical and prescriptions and having to pay more for labor for little things like yard work getting your car repaired etc. And don’t get me started on Wall Street taking a hit !

I predict by September shit will hit the fan.

[FakeNoose]

16. He's going to lose "the cult" when the Epstein documents are revealed

[Joinfortmill]

38. Ha! ROFL.

[Orrex]

17. Every last one of them could disappear from the Earth and not be missed

[mdbl]

18. I have no hope

These assholes will kick each other in the ass and turn around and hug the next day. They are just schizo and ruining our country.

[Martin Eden]

21. Also, it is a cult built on a foundation of LIES

Eventually, it will CRUMBLE.

[hatrack]

47. Speaking of cults, Nazi Germany didn't crumble for good until April, 1945 . . . .

And it required plenty of sweat equity to induce that crumbling.

Among many who participated in that particular project: the Red Army, the British Navy, Army and Royal Air Force, the US Army, Navy and Army Air Corps, Free French armed forces . . . .

[Martin Eden]

55. True, and there are similarities between the Fascism of Hitler and Trump

But the Trumpian lies are more profligate and easily disproven. Also, the histories leading up to these fascist regimes are quite different.

Germany suffered a great loss in WW1 and the humiliation & severe economic burden of the Versailles Treaty. That was followed by the Great Depression and dysfunctional governments. Prior to the ravages of WW2, the Nazi regime actually put the country back to work and restored national pride.

The similarity with Trump (including authoritarianism) is the scapegoating and demonization of a targeted minority.

The hardships and toll of the pandemic don't come close to what the German people had endured before the fascist leader came to power. Trump’s predecessor left him with an economy that was "the envy of the world" in terms of post pandemic recovery.

The egregious incompetence on ideologically destructive consequences of this Trump regime will cause real hardships for the entire country including his supporters.

There will be no need for mighty foreign armies to put an end to this regime. Much depends on whether we will have free and fair elections in 2026 & 2028. The struggle could surpass what our country went through in the 1960's.

[DFW]

75. You hit on the classic irony

Hitler inherited a basket case and tried to turn it into a powerhouse. Trump inherited a powerhouse and is turning it into a basket case.

[Martin Eden]

78. You summed it up very well in two sentences

Trump could hardly do worse if he was taking orders directly from Vlad Putin.

[DFW]

80. His actions at times lead to suspicions of exactly that

Sometimes it is difficult to imagine that such is not the case.

[LS0999]

22. Sometimes it doesn't collapse until the country is turned into rubble

What if the Turd starts turning his focus towards annexing other countries again That was also part of his campaign promises.

[Joinfortmill]

40. Yup, let's hope there's a permanent intervention before that occurs.

[The Madcap]

64. And in our case, there's no one to save us from ourselves

When the country turns to rubble, who would rebuild it? It's not like there would be a "Marshall Plan" for us. We will end up like current-day Russia. We'll be a bunch of rural peasants scattered across the land with a handful of cities where all the remaining wealthy gather to run things.

Wait a minute...that seems a bit familiar....

[ProudMNDemocrat]

23. To borrow an idea from Honest Abe Lincoln...

A REGIME DIVIDED CANNOT STAND.

[niyad]

24. Last week would be nice!

[lapfog_1]

26. I really hope the cult of Trump goes full purple koolaid.

the average IQ of the nation would jump 20 points.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

27. Well, let's see: Branch Davidians went out in blaze of "glory"; Heaven's Gate - suicides,; People's Temple -

murders & suicides & kidnappings; Manson Family - murders & prison; etc., etc.

I'm including Scientology because of it's extreme wealth and it's close ties to trump officials. Bondi was very cozy w/them during her time in FL; RFK jr has some legal people on his team that have very close ties to Scientology; one of Scientology's biggest donor's was appointed to the Kennedy Center by trump. - Lot's of other examples.

I'm keeping an eye on this cult collaboration, because of the many lawsuits being brought against Scientology, eg: coerced abortions, human trafficking, coercion of all types. AND the fact that many ex-members, including second generation escapees are shining a light on their abusive practices.

[MayReasonRule]

29. Fascists Are Ouroboros

In time fascists always self consume.

Just like houses of cards are without defense against reason's wind, delusion ultimately destroys it's self.

Of course the rub is the ride in the mean time while the destruction occurs ain't nothing but nasty.

Nonetheless, we have just begun to fight.

Reason will never desist.
Reason will always resist.

May reason rule.

[milestogo]

32. Wow, that is a great word!

The ouroboros or uroboros (/ˌjʊərəˈbɒrəs/; /ˌʊərəˈbɒrəs/) is an ancient symbol depicting a snake or dragon eating its own tail. The ouroboros entered Western tradition via ancient Egyptian iconography and the Greek magical tradition. It was adopted as a symbol in Gnosticism and Hermeticism and, most notably, in alchemy. Some snakes, such as rat snakes, have been known to consume themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

[MayReasonRule]

51. The Gnostics Understood The Difference Between Religion And Mythology

They abhorred religion because religion obscures and deludes.

Religion requires the willing suspension of critical thinking;
Religion requires the willing embrace of delusional reality.

They adored mythology because mythology reveals and informs.

Mythology requires the willing embrace of critical thinking.
Mythology requires the willing embrace of factual reality.

[llmart]

62. PBS is rerunning Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" with Bill Moyers.

I am watching it again since I thought it was an interesting series. Also to remind me of how much I loved Bill Moyers.

[MayReasonRule]

65. I Have A Hardback Copy Of Transformations Of Myth Through Time And A Softback Of The Hero With A Thousand Faces

Bill was and still remains singular in his own right.

Transformations of Myth Through Time by Bill Moyers/Joseph Campbell and Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco were each instrumental in my escape from the Abrahamic blood cult of 'Christ' in which I and mine were reared.

I was groomed to literally be a Mike Johnson.
He was reared within twenty mile of the home I was born in, within which I and mine once again reside today.

All the rest of the members of our families are still thoroughly caught up within the delusional maelstrom of the cult in which we were reared.

Grateful every day.

[pat_k]

68. Here's some "extra-credit" reading when you get to the episode....

... on empathy and interconnectedness, where he discusses Schopenhauer.


Uncle Joe's post Human Empathy & Interconnectedness - Joseph Campbell - 1986, in which Joseph Campbell quotes Schopenhauer prompted me to go back and review bits of his writings.

The following from Schopenhauer's The Basis of Morality on the "radical difference of mental habit between the good character and the bad" really struck me.

Page 277

The preponderance of either mode of viewing life not only determines single acts; it shapes a man's whole nature and temperament. Hence the radical difference of mental habit between the good character and the bad.

The latter feels everywhere that a thick wall of partition hedges him off from all others. For him the world is an absolute non-ego, and his relation to it an essentially hostile one; consequently, the key-note of his disposition is hatred, suspicion, envy, and pleasure in seeing distress.

The good character, on the other hand, lives in an external world homogeneous with his own being; the rest of mankind is not in his eyes a non-ego; he thinks of it rather as "myself once more." He therefore stands on an essentially amicable footing with every one: he is conscious of being, in his inmost nature, akin to the whole human race, takes direct interest in their weal and woe, and confidently assumes in their case the same interest in him. This is the source of his deep inward peace, and of that happy, calm, contented manner, which goes out on those around him, and is as the "presence of a good diffused."

Whereas the bad character in time of trouble has no trust in the help of his fellow-creatures. If he invokes aid, he does so without confidence: obtained, he feels no real gratitude for it; because he can hardly discern therein anything but the effect of others' folly. For he is simply incapable of recognising his own self in some one else; and this, even after it has furnished the most incontestible signs of existence in that other person: on which fact the repulsive nature of all unthankfulness in reality depends. The moral isolation, which thus naturally and inevitably encompasses the bad man, is often the cause of his becoming the victim of despair.

The good man, on the contrary, will appeal to his neighbours for assistance, with an assurance equal to the consciousness he has of being ready himself to help them. As I have said: to the one type, humanity is a non-ego; to the other, "myself once more." The magnanimous character, who forgives his enemy, and returns good for evil, rises to the sublime, and receives the highest meed of praise; because he recognises his real self even there where it is most conspicuously disowned.

As I read the following bit, DT's "suckers and losers" echoed in my head:

"he feels no real gratitude for it; because he can hardly discern therein anything but the effect of others' folly. "

Page 214

Boundless compassion for all living beings is the surest and most certain guarantee of pure moral conduct, and needs no casuistry. Whoever is filled with it will assuredly injure no one, do harm to no one, encroach on no man's rights; he will rather have regard for every one, forgive every one, help every one as far as he can, and all his actions will bear the stamp of justice and loving-kindness.

People connected to our basic common humanity and compassion will always be the counterweight to those of "bad character." Compassion is a mighty force. Hold on to it.

[llmart]

70. Thanks.

I watched the original PBS series and read most of Bill Moyers' works. I am finding something new in every episode I'm rewatching, probably because I'm older and wiser now. I guess I'm trying to find a way to understand how to live in this hate-filled society we find ourselves in.

[Meadowoak]

76. Thank you for posting that, I was just about to look up the word ouroboros

[Hey Joe]

53. This is true

The sociopathy of the MAGA cult will always find a new reason to hate and create enemies, even amongst themselves. They need that animosity and hatred in their veins like a junky needs their fix.

[aggiesal]

30. Unfortunately, when they reach that tipping point of no return ...

they'll drag the rest of us, down with them.
They're already doing it.

[murielm99]

31. The Moonies still exist,

but they are greatly diminished because their leader is dead. So where is that Orrex guy?

[Joinfortmill]

33. I sure as hell hope so. Trump and his band of traitors are doing a good job of taking our federal government down.

[angrychair]

37. I wish this were true

But all the Mango Mussolini has to do is wave a hand and every knee will bend and do as they are told.
I don't understand it but it's true.

[Duncanpup]

39. Other observations the different maga cult.

Are the tech maga Vance ,Peter Thiel once the parasite Musk. And then the other side of maga the as you mentioned the Bondi Hegseth RFK Jr Gabbard who must show absolute loyalty to Trump.
And the cult base well they’re completely lost recently their outrage over Epstein files.
Then Trump tosses out a shiny object a lawsuit no trans in women sports and the cult is off on another morons crusade.

[moose65]

41. Whew

It’s long been my thought that when Trump’s downfall finally comes, it will happen fast.

The sycophants will abandon him, and his followers who are just opportunists and not in the cult will abandon him for the next shiny object.

[2na fisherman]

43. Foreign Enemies May Exploit Such A Collapse

Without a cohesive functioning democratic government, it would be a prime time for enemy foreign nations and/or state sponsored terrorists to attack the US again at a time when we are trying to recover from a collapsed Trump regime. I hope some cooler heads prevail and there are contingency plans for an effective continuity of government during such a crisis of leadership. Even if Trump were to die, the current line of succession lacks any real talent to govern. Am I right to be concerned about this scenario?

[Haggard Celine]

77. Yes, you are right.

This is a national security matter, and we have to consider what might happen in every situation. This is a very vulnerable time, and if I were an enemy of this country, I would be looking for an opportunity like this. Of course Trump might cause such a thing to happen when he gets into trouble. It would be a way to deflect from all of the things we're discussing now. I'm expecting something to happen, but hopefully we'll be able to deal with it without getting into a big squabble.

[SheltieLover]

44. Kick

[BumRushDaShow]

45. I just plowed through this-

Steve Bannon confronted over Jeffrey Epstein at MAGA event: ‘Trump has become the deep state!’



And then saw your OP and I would agree.

[JCMach1]

49. Kremlinology is pointless when staring down the barrel

Of concentration camps and forever dictatorship.

[HeartsCanHope]

56. I certainly hope so, too!

This administration was a complete failure before day one. The damage Trump and his minions have caused is incalculable. Even if it ended today it would take years to fix the damage. I, for one, will never trust a republican again. I hope Trump's failure means the complete collapse of the republican party. Their cowardice and complicity should prevent them from holding power ever again.

[ananda]

59. The only glue holding it together is hate tied to money.

There's no real intelligence or good thinking there at all.

[Linda ladeewolf]

60. I believe the cult will collapse from its own weight. It will take a number of people with it though,

Some of us and some of them. Their hate for other people and the left is strong, but I think it’s possible that their love of money will win out. It’s costing far more to remove immigrants than it does to keep them. It’s really hurting the economy. Once they get it through their thick skulls that it’s costing them billions, they’ll start complaining, but it takes time. I hope we’ve got enough. It’ll take time for the masses to get hungry enough to do the right thing. People will not follow Vance for long. He rubs people the wrong way. He has no finesse, no charisma, and he’s stupid about people.

[bucolic_frolic]

61. It takes intelligence, rules, laws to make any system work

Absent all 3, collapse.

[Skittles]

66. I have zero doubt they will implode

the problem is that in the meantime, they are taking AMERICA down with them

[pat_k]

67. And as the spell breaks for some, let's extend a little grace.

No forgiveness in advance, but I firmly believe the "never forgive, never forget" sentiment and shaming, hateful rhetoric directed at 47 voters that is so widespread is seriously problematic. As long as MAGA as a cult, or a MAGA individual, is immorally attacking our core values, we must defend ourselves and be loud and proud about what those values are. But I wish more of us would learn to do it without the rhetorical violence against "them."

Food for thought on understanding the cult and some closing advice from Jayne Converse in this short 5 min video:

....Shame is too powerful, so they double-down, like trump does. Some trump supporters know deep down they've been conned. They've seen the cruelty, the corruption, the chaos, but they've already invested years of their indentity into defending him. To walk away now would mean confronting shame, losing their community, admitting they were wrong. And that is terrifying to them. So instead, they dig in deeper...

Not everyone in that cult is unreachable. Some are too far gone. Some are on the edge. Quiet. Doubting. Hurting. We don't get them back with facts. We get them back by offering something Trump never will: real community, real care, and real solutions... Offer people a way out that doesn't begin with shame, but with dignity... This fight isn't just about defeating Trump. It's about breaking the spell and building something better in its place.

Points along the same lines were made by Sarah McBride (1st trans U.S. Congressperson) in an interview shortly after she was sworn in.

...This country is still at a trans 101 spot... Leaders should always be out front of public opinion, but in order to foster change in public opinion we've got to be within arms distance of the public, so we can pull the along with us. If we get too out ahead of it we lose our grip and are unable to pull the public along with us... There is a space for diversity of messengers, and a diversity of message... What we do know is that as the movement for marriage equality moved forward, the most effective messengers for marriage were not same sex couples, were not parents of same sex couples or kids of same sex couples, the most effective messengers for marriage equality were those that evolved. They were effective because they gave a permission structure for people who had not yet gotten there that it was ok to be uncomfortable, it was ok to be on the other side of the issue. You were not a bad person, you weren't wrong. And by giving people permission to be wrong, it created the space and grace for people to grow. We need more grace in our politics if we want people to actually grow...

We are shooting ourselves in the foot as people who believe in progress when we create no incentive for people to grow because they perceive they will be permanently guilty for having been wrong. We create no space for them to grow by extending no grace for them to walk there...

One of the reasons you see people pushed into their respective corners -- you say something that's deemed problematic. And you are immediately hounded by one side and immediately embraced by the other side. Human nature is -- when faced with that degree of extreme binary reactions is to go to the people who are validating you instantaneously. So we unintentionally push people further and further into their own corners and into their negative opinion by responding with a degree of condemnation and vitriol that creates no incentive or space for them to grow...

NVC (Marshall Rosenberg's non-violent communication) skills can be useful. It's not specifically designed for communicating with cult adherents or across ideological divides, but the principles are powerful in all sorts of conflict resolution situations. There are NVC practice groups online and in some locations, in person.

[mountain grammy]

69. I think it has to be a bit of an awakening

For people to watch videos of citizens at public meetings denigrating our federal government and refusing government help and expertise to prevent tragedies, such as what occurred in Texas last week. At some point people have to look at the consequences of their own actions and decisions that were not made in the best interest of the community.

[struggle4progress]

71. Dunno. We've had bumper crops of crooks, liars, and m-fuggin morons in recent years

[progressoid]

72. But what happens when the cult has the support (tacit or explicit) of most of the media...

X, Facebook, Fox, AM radio, WAPO, NYT, etc.

[C Moon]

73. I recall all this kind of "the end is near" "another shoe dropped" talk during his #45 term.

Nothing worked.
The jackass ignored the 2020 election results, claimed it was stolen and set up his people to attack our government.
Even after all that and being a convicted felon, he's back in the White House.
Those January 6thrs who were hunted down, put through our courts and sent to prison are now free—some are probably working in ICE.

As long as money talks, there will always be trumps in power.

[ReRe]

74. I think it already has collapsed.

Looks like a pretty deflated balloon to me. It's a house built of shallow cards, after all.

[dlilafae]

79. When we garner the courage to stand against a half-wit criminal

who is destroying the 50 states that the common people pay to live in ... let me know. I'll be the first in line. Otherwise, hope on. 🍀