If Rubio succeeds with regime change in Venezuela

[vapor2]

does he realize he does NOT have immunity?

[SSJVegeta]

1. Neither will the military leaders who go through with it

😒

[Irish_Dem]

2. Who will hold him to account? And how?

[pat_k]

5. A legitimate administration post-impeachment or post-voting the felon out.

[Irish_Dem]

6. It would be a full time job cleaning up the Trump mess.

Repairing all the damage.
Prosecuting all the criminals.

I don't see how it can be done easily.

[pat_k]

7. Prosecutions, starting from the top, are a moral imperative.

We cannot pull the usual "Let's just move forward and make sure it doesn't happen again."

The only way "it" -- whether Bush I's complicity in Iran Contra, war crimes during Bush' II's term, massive mortgage fraud that crashed the world economy, or any of the other things our leaders have said "Let's just move on" from --- doesn't happen again is if there is FULL accountability. And that means prosecutions.

If I hear ONE leader say "Let's not look back, let's look forward" I will be looking for people who feel the same to make sure our calls to prosecute the criminals are heard, loud and clear.

It was all that "look forward, not back" shit that got us here.

A big job? Yes. Absolutely.

For the rank and file crooks, perhaps a "truth and reconciliation" commission where they confess their crimes to the nation and are barred from ever working in state or federal government again in lieu of prosecution. But the cabinet? The criminal AGs? The people like Alex Acosta and other Trump lower-level minions abusing their positions to advance the criminal agenda? They must face justice.

[Irish_Dem]

8. I agree with you 100%.

Part of why we are at this point in history, the fascist takeover of our country, is the failure
of punishing past GOP crimes.

I am just saying it is going to be a tremendous undertaking.
The damage is extensive, the criminals are many.

[pat_k]

9. As Kamala says, Hard Work is Good Work.

Yes, the undertaking is almost unimaginable. But, just as so many communities have recovered from devastating natural disasters, this nation will recover from the man-made disaster of Christian Nationalism, meets White Supremacy, meets Cult of Trump, meets insatiable greed.

The thing is, the system is broken. It has been. We have a bigger undertaking ahead than simply repairing the MAGA/Project 2025 damage. Piketty laid out how destabilizing our increasingly obscene concentration of wealth is --- a great "sucking sound" that is the inevitable result of capital growing at a faster rate than the broader economy. Absent counter-forces, like progressive taxation on wealth and income, and higher rates on capital gains than wages, and serious redistribution of taxes collected through policies like a Piketty-style "Inheritance for All," we have been heading toward a breaking point of some kind for a very, very long time.

I don't have any sort of clear vision of how we heal, but I don't have a clear vision of how a great bridge or skyscraper gets built either. From the outside, it seems almost like magic. The way various skills, materials, laborers, designers, come together and piece-by-piece, the structure comes into being.

One thing I do know is that terrible times can usher in transformative change. I have faith that more Americans will reconnect, or connect anew, with aspirations and values of global citizenship -- -- values like human-rights, rule of law, religious freedom, self-governance, and economic justice, and the thinking underlying those values, among them rationality, compassion as a moral imperative, and scientific inquiry.

So many of us are already there. We are starting with a stronger base than I think we may realize.

In the meantime, all we can each do is our little bit of good, where we are.

"Do your little bit of good where you are; it is those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world."
-- Desmond Tutu

[Irish_Dem]

10. I agree. We found out the US is just a house of cards.

There are no guardrails and very easily corrupted.

The US government system needs to be rebuilt.

[pat_k]

11. The ultimate check on tyranny isn't the body of law and institutions. It's the character of the people...

... that populate those institutions.

Anyone who once "poo pooed" the notion that character matters in our electeds -- perhaps believing that they all have no character -- are learning what it actually means for the people charged with upholding the constitution to have absolutely no moral integrity or respect for the oath of office.

Character does matter and I think it is becoming crystal clear to more and more people that it is not just We the People that are the ultimate check, it is also the character and integrity of the people we elect that makes for decency in government.

Yes, we are a government of institutions and laws. but none of that matters if the institutions are populated by people who are corrupt to their cores.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes. We The People have utterly failed. Greatest moral collapse in US history.

The ultimate guardrail and check is the citizenry.
And the citizens have failed in their civic duty.

The US seems to be populated by a large group of sociopaths/psychopaths who love
the brutality and cruelty. They love leaders who commit heinous crimes.

Another large group doesn't give a damn about what is happening as long as they
have enough beer and wings to watch football games.

Another group has no critical thinking skills whatsoever and believe whatever they are told.

When I was young, the adults I knew, no matter their educational level,
took being an American citizen seriously. They read the newspaper or listened to the news.
They voted. They knew right from wrong and would not vote for criminals.

Today American citizens cannot be bothered.

[pat_k]

13. I am fortunate here in Seattle. Nearly every person I deal with day-to-day is engaged,

compassionate, and completely heartbroken at the destruction of the executive branch and the burning of alliances that are core to our identity as Americans.

The thing is, I believe that power known as "the goodwill of the American people" still exists. The problem is that vote suppression and gerrymandering have corrupted the ways we measure that "goodwill." And now, the executive branch -- the branch through which our will is made manifest -- has been completely co-opted for corrupt purposes.

But there are a hell of a lot of people out there doing a hell of a lot of good work. For example, Braver Angels is a group that, like Living Room Conversations, has been focused on bridging divides and "disagreeing better." They are shifting from talk to action. It will be interesting to see where it goes, but they are focusing on fostering courageous citizenship and citizen-led solutions. As described in a recent newsletter:

CLS is a program where citizens come together across differences to foster trust, forge common-ground solutions, and follow through to implement solutions to local problems. It's an essential component of Braver Angels' "north star": courageous citizenship.

Says CEO Maury Giles: "People are choosing to act, not react. In rooms filled with neighbors from different political homes, we saw what leadership looks like: contend without contempt, then turn dialogue into collaborative action. The appetite to build—not just talk—is growing."

The program grows out of Braver Angels’ enduring faith in the capacity of everyday Americans to overcome divides and rise to the challenges of our time. At this moment of civic fracture, CLS emulates and builds upon much of what others have done before: citizens’ assemblies, participatory budgeting, service initiatives, and dialogue-to-action programs.

But in today’s civic landscape, these approaches are still far from widespread. CLS is designed to help bridge that gap by making this work more accessible, visible, and sustainable. Leveraging evidence-based best practices, local CLS teams select an issue to work on, ensure broad representation of diverse perspectives, develop common-ground solutions, and drive those solutions forward into implementation – reclaiming a vision of citizenship rooted in America’s deepest democratic values.

[ananda]

3. This is Trump finally finding his wetdream war.

First he tried Canada, Greenland, and unsuccessfully
destroying NATO for Putin...

so now he's going after Venezuela and getting control
of resources there and, I suspect, other parts of Latin
America as well.

Good for him. Isn't that precious?

[Grins]

4. Remember when A.Wol Bush said "No more nation building!!"

And the next year forgot he ever said it? It was in all the papers. And ethical squids like Rubio stood up and cheered…?